crapy clawn forums :: let's discuss windows 8

They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile.

Quote:

They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile.

Win2k was awesome (for the time). XP sucked until SP1. 98 sucked until SE.

Win8 may not be bad, but I've found no compelling reason to upgrade.

Can you elaborate on the leaving your computer on all the time one?

Quote:

Can you elaborate on the leaving your computer on all the time one?

Windows 8 boots faster. You won't care about that if you leave your computer on all the time.

Quote:

They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile.

I'd try to convince you otherwise, but it wouldn't matter so I won't. just try it in a store sometime instead of making your decision based on bad superstition.

Happ, you don't have to sell me on the value of a store. From what I've read though is that there is no way to side-load a "modern UI" app onto a PC unless the person loading it has visual studio 2012 installed (which is admittedly free) and has the source.

may as well install Linux at that rate, no?

Let's pretend I'm Notch and I don't need the convenience of the Windows store. You're going to say I have to A: ask people to install VS2012 to install Minecraft - Touch or B: give up 30% of revenue?

gtfo.

I guess if notch wants to convert Minecraft to use metro UI then thats what he's got to do. Why would he want to do this?

So, Minecraft users can continue to download and install Minecraft the same way they always have... whats the problem? Notch's business & development model doesn't change one bit.

So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own.

Quote:

So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own.

Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case.

Quote:

So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own.

Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case.

Quote:

So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own.

Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case.

well that was my impression, but I did some digging because I don't really know for sure.

Here's some info on how to do multi-touch in windows 7, which presumably would work just fine in windows 8.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee336016.aspx

Googling around for something talking about how to do touch with .NET, but i didn't see anything. I did find another link talking about working directly in C with COM.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... s.85).aspx

So yea, you probably could build an app that uses touch and run it off the desktop, but it would be difficult, time consuming, and it's not where Microsoft is pushing developers to go.

Smith, yea a 27" touch-monitor would be pretty useless, but there are laptops already on sale that have a touchscreen AND a keyboard attached. So the argument is still in play. Thanks for your informed and civil thoughts on the topic.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/new-pcs/multitouch.html
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/ ... 8-pro/home

Author:	Agent_137 [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	let's discuss windows 8
step 1. run chrome as an administrator to avoid punkbuster problems with bf3. seems like you only have to do this once. edit: retracting step 2 because you don't have to use your Microsoft online account to log in, you can switch to a local account. step 3: launch bf3, go into the video settings, change them, apply it. change it back to how you had it. this will get rid of the annoying screen flash when you die or change the map size.

Author:	Agnt.Smith [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
step 3. don't install. I'll be adhering to step 3 AT LEAST as long as I clung to Win98SE, but probably much longer. I will never (mark my words) adopt a touch interface into my daily use. I have to use my wifes android phone from time to time, and I have to buy grocery, use ATMs, etc. But I will never willingly purchase or use any touch device. I hate them. I hate them the same way I hate track-balls. I'll never buy a trackball mouse. The End. So why would I buy/use Win8? Its a touch OS. The End.

Author:	dime [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
If it isn't broke, etc.

Author:	Happy [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
I work for Microsoft and therefore love it. Side note: Win8 comes with a sports app that you can personalize by telling it your favorite teams... except it doesn't recognize college sports.

Author:	superspck [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
That's fine, the NCAA hasn't recognized college athletes for years, either.

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Author:	ULTROS [ Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile.

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile. I'd try to convince you otherwise, but it wouldn't matter so I won't. just try it in a store sometime instead of making your decision based on bad superstition.

Author:	Heretic [ Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile. Win2k was awesome (for the time). XP sucked until SP1. 98 sucked until SE. Win8 may not be bad, but I've found no compelling reason to upgrade.

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile. Win2k was awesome (for the time). XP sucked until SP1. 98 sucked until SE. Win8 may not be bad, but I've found no compelling reason to upgrade. I like it because now my computer boots way faster and the startup screen is easier to use than a startup menu. And everything else is the same. And the upgrade was cheap fast and easy. Some of the apps i enjoy more than their desktop versions. i.e. popular science and skype. Also the facebook messenger and google calendar integration are nice but not game changers. All in all, if you like new software as a general rule, upgrade. if you get a kick out of your computer starting up fucking instantly, upgrade. if change scares you or you leave your computer on all the time, don't upgrade.

Author:	Hogg [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Can you elaborate on the leaving your computer on all the time one?

Author:	Heretic [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Can you elaborate on the leaving your computer on all the time one? Windows 8 boots faster. You won't care about that if you leave your computer on all the time.

Author:	Agent_137 [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: Can you elaborate on the leaving your computer on all the time one? Windows 8 boots faster. You won't care about that if you leave your computer on all the time. Yea, windows starts in 3-4 seconds for me. That doesn't include bios time, but it wouldn't be fair to count that. Yes i have an ssd, but my win 7 install was still something like 20 seconds. other than booting, the system does feel snappier, but it's really subjective. also you'll pick up 1-2 FPS in BF2.

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
i was thinking about getting a windows 8 laptop/tablet and I was entertaining the idea of getting a windows 8 phone. But I'm just now realizing that they really are building their own walled garden. Windows 8 "metro" apps can only be distributed through the Windows Store, which means developers have to give Microsoft 30% of sales AND go through an approval process. Also they're ending support for XMPP with Messenger and explicitly encouraging people to use Skype. I like Skype, but they don't support XMPP or any other open protocol. What I hate most about Apple is how closed off it is. Sure it's a premiere experience and deep ecosystem. But for me, I like my OS to acknowledge that I actually own my computer and can do whatever the fuck I want with it. Now Windows is going in the same direction. No wonder Notch and Gabewere so pissed. I'm a little sad, I've always liked Windows. Oh well, I guess I'm all in with Google. I wonder how steam for linux is coming along?

Author:	Happy [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
You know you can still install programs (not apps) the same way you always could. The app marketplace lets people build and publish apps the same way Apple's store does but Windows 8 doesn't block you from installing stuff that doesn't come from the app store. The store just makes it "easy" to publish, monetize and monitor the programs you make. Everyone is getting all hysterical about MS building up a closed marketplace but it's a lot of whining all for nothing. You can still run non-app code in Win 8 and on the Win 8 phone. P.S. Gabe is probably mad because he sees the XBox marketplace's potential to jump from the console domain to the PC. If/When that happens Steam will have a new competitor.

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Author:	Agent_137 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
You cannot publish a modern/metro UI application without going through the windows store, correct? you can install desktop apps all day long as you always could, yes. But the experience that Microsoft is selling, the entire UI that they've been pushing, the tools they're releasing for developers, all that is not accessible if you don't distribute through the store. If there was a way to distribute a metro app without going through the store, then I say yes wonderful. The store is a great idea and probably worth 30% of revenue. But forcing people through the store is definitely apple-like and a departure from an open ecosystem.

Author:	Happy [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Im pretty sure you can release metro apps on windows 8 that don't go through the store. I don't know that for a fact yet because most of my machines are still win 7 and I haven't played around much with the new Visual Studio + Win 8. Win 8 Phone is locked down to the marketplace but you can always side-load custom code if you really want to. It's not convenient but not blocked. If some of the metro/win8 features are "marketplace only" then it's just a matter of time before somebody cracks it and gives the community the ability to do it anyway. Attempting to block people from doing something they want to do never works. Either way you'll get the ability to install and run custom code. In theory, the main benefits of the marketplace are the fact that it makes apps easy for consumers to discover and it provides built in commerce & analytics so coders don't need to do that themselves (of course you still can if you really want to). The "scary" downside is that big brother Microsoft is now the gatekeeper and they have the power to deny things from the marketplace. I guess the thing that makes me roll my eyes when people go on and on about this is the fact that 99.9% of the programs everyone uses will have no problem going through the app store and the approval process. What big, popular, or necessary app is going to get shut out if everything has to follow this process?

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Happ, you don't have to sell me on the value of a store. From what I've read though is that there is no way to side-load a "modern UI" app onto a PC unless the person loading it has visual studio 2012 installed (which is admittedly free) and has the source. may as well install Linux at that rate, no? Let's pretend I'm Notch and I don't need the convenience of the Windows store. You're going to say I have to A: ask people to install VS2012 to install Minecraft - Touch or B: give up 30% of revenue? gtfo.

Author:	ULTROS [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: They always make 1 good os (win 98, winxp, win7), and then like 2 bad OS (win 2000, vista, and a few i forgot in between.) Will be clinging to 7 for awhile. I'd try to convince you otherwise, but it wouldn't matter so I won't. just try it in a store sometime instead of making your decision based on bad superstition. Nope every other versions sucks ass. Then they fix what the fucked up with that version and make a "new" one.

Author:	Heretic [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Happ, you don't have to sell me on the value of a store. From what I've read though is that there is no way to side-load a "modern UI" app onto a PC unless the person loading it has visual studio 2012 installed (which is admittedly free) and has the source. may as well install Linux at that rate, no? Let's pretend I'm Notch and I don't need the convenience of the Windows store. You're going to say I have to A: ask people to install VS2012 to install Minecraft - Touch or B: give up 30% of revenue? gtfo. Yes, the only ways to get a metro app is through the store (see here) or via side-loading, which only works if you're a business and is still a huge pain in the ass. This is the process for side-loading. You basically need an enterprise version of Win8 or a product key given to you (you being the IT organization of a business) by MS that you have to activate on the client.

Author:	Happy [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
I guess if notch wants to convert Minecraft to use metro UI then thats what he's got to do. Why would he want to do this? So, Minecraft users can continue to download and install Minecraft the same way they always have... whats the problem? Notch's business & development model doesn't change one bit.

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: I guess if notch wants to convert Minecraft to use metro UI then thats what he's got to do. Why would he want to do this? So, Minecraft users can continue to download and install Minecraft the same way they always have... whats the problem? Notch's business & development model doesn't change one bit. Microsoft is locking down the future of touch on Windows into a walled garden just like iOS. That is fact. Whether that sucks or not is opinion. I think it sucks. You don't. that's cool. p.s. There's already a touch version of Minecraft that would be well suited to a Metro app. And it's available in the Apple Store and Android Store and both companies take a 30% cut. What makes it scary for me is that with Win 8 it's not just on a mobile device anymore. Now it's on my desktop. If I buy a touch monitor for my desktop now any apps I want to to use with touch must run through the Microsoft store. And it's not just any store, it's a store that requires approval. So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own. For me, that's a bummer. Hell, I can even side-load touch apps onto my android mobile device. But I can't on my Windows pc now? I'm sad. Normal people? Probably don't care.

Author:	Happy [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own. Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case.

Author:	Agnt.Smith [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own. Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case. The assumption here is that desktops are going to touch. This is wrong, thus this argument is stupid. Using a touchscreen on your desktop is just as non-standard as using Linux, which also destroys this stupid argument. Also, Windows 8 sucks. /thread

Author:	Agent_137 [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own. Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case. well that was my impression, but I did some digging because I don't really know for sure. Here's some info on how to do multi-touch in windows 7, which presumably would work just fine in windows 8. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee336016.aspx Googling around for something talking about how to do touch with .NET, but i didn't see anything. I did find another link talking about working directly in C with COM. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... s.85).aspx So yea, you probably could build an app that uses touch and run it off the desktop, but it would be difficult, time consuming, and it's not where Microsoft is pushing developers to go. Smith, yea a 27" touch-monitor would be pretty useless, but there are laptops already on sale that have a touchscreen AND a keyboard attached. So the argument is still in play. Thanks for your informed and civil thoughts on the topic. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/new-pcs/multitouch.html http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/ ... 8-pro/home

Author:	Agnt.Smith [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: let's discuss windows 8
Quote: Quote: Quote: So now I can't load touch software from any source onto this desktop machine that I own. Really, is this true? If they block access to the touch interface for non-marketplace apps then that is retarded... I dont know one way or the other but I hope thats not the case. well that was my impression, but I did some digging because I don't really know for sure. Here's some info on how to do multi-touch in windows 7, which presumably would work just fine in windows 8. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee336016.aspx Googling around for something talking about how to do touch with .NET, but i didn't see anything. I did find another link talking about working directly in C with COM. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... s.85).aspx So yea, you probably could build an app that uses touch and run it off the desktop, but it would be difficult, time consuming, and it's not where Microsoft is pushing developers to go. Smith, yea a 27" touch-monitor would be pretty useless, but there are laptops already on sale that have a touchscreen AND a keyboard attached. So the argument is still in play. Thanks for your informed and civil thoughts on the topic. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/new-pcs/multitouch.html http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/ ... 8-pro/home Thats why they call me Civil Smith, Agent_Blackpot. Not to defend MS, but Apple has spent the last 10+ years proving walled gardens are A) profitable and B) accepted and even embraced by the masses. MSFT has never been an innovator, they've been a follower. Why would they change their DNA now?